Opinion by thepogg.com

**GCG** · 27 January 2015, 12:31 pm

Originally Posted by Anthony

This is a valid point. Even if a program terminated the affiliate account, but still received the "hijacked" traffic, the program is still benefiting from stolen traffic. Plus now they get the added benefit of not paying an affiliate for it. I will go through the list of programs still being displayed and see what they say when I suggest they redirect or close the links. I will post in the original thread so it will all be in one place.

You will never know if the program has banned this hacker, if one account is closed another one can be opened and all earnings can be transferred to the new account.

as long as the links / banners remain on these hackers sites after a few days - after the message your account is terminated - he is still making money with them.

other brands have been removed instantly ; why not with EP/FA/BP/Affactive/RevenueJet etc etc.

and why not reveal who is behind this all if you are that committed and not tolerate this.

YOU tell me, they won't !

buying time and again a lot of lip service when this issue is being discussed.

get real folks affiliate managers have no other choice then to listen to their boss and tell you a story.

GPWA has no other choice otherwise they lose the sponsor money.

I will repeat it again so you do not have to :

"Money is the root of all evil in this world"

**iGamingWriter** · 27 January 2015, 12:42 pm

Originally Posted by EP Relations

If you have suggestion I am open to hearing them.

Originally Posted by ThePOGG

Whether the hacker is still receiving credit for the traffic is only half the equation here - if the site are still accepting traffic from these sources they're benefitting directly from criminal activity.

It's not that hard to put a redirction in place that sends this traffic into dead space - now that would be proof that they're not doing anything they shouldn't be.

^^ - That would prevent any ambiguity - anyone (like myself) finding you on a hacked site that had been left in place after the account was terminated would quickly realise you're not receiving any traffic from stolen sources.

**Jokerman99** · 27 January 2015, 1:58 pm

The truth is many of the programs are more than happy to take the traffic, it's only the fact that affiliates raise the matter that they take any action. You can be sure some of the shadier casinos you see on the site aren't exactly trying hard to shut the hacker down.

**EP Relations** · 28 January 2015, 2:11 am

Hi thePogg,
Can you please send me the URLs of the hacked pages, so that we can investigate this immediately? I will also send you a PM now, with the same request.
Thanks

**iGamingWriter** · 28 January 2015, 2:24 am

Originally Posted by EP Relations

Hi thePogg,
Can you please send me the URLs of the hacked pages, so that we can investigate this immediately? I will also send you a PM now, with the same request.
Thanks

Hi Robin,

Here's the 2 I used yesterday;

hxxp://mindcorp.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/1/new-playtech-casinos-2015.html
hxxp://expanetsthailand.com/?look_gl=swiss-casino/free-bonus-no-deposit-casino-playtech-2015.htm

Both are still active and the second one is an identical copy of a page I found less that 2 weeks ago that has since been taken down (i.e. this is the same person). If you do a site: search for the term casino on either of these domains you'll see that the hack's pretty extensive.

Usually I would just have responded to your PM but to protect my own reputation I've chosen to post this here to discount any accusations that I may not cooperate (because I'm sneaky and underhanded and have been doing things behind everyone's backs

).

**Roulette Zeitung** · 28 January 2015, 5:08 am

Originally Posted by EP Relations

Hi,I just want to jump in here and say that whenever we are notified about a hacker or abuse by one of our Affiliates we take it very seriously. Send me the links of where we appear and I will bring this to the Directors. We follow a pretty strict policy when it comes to hackers and once discovered we send an email notifying them their account will be terminated and ask for them to remove us from their sites, tracking links are removed and we no longer take any traffic from this site. Usually if we see they have not removed us we will try calling and emailing several more times but if they don't comply and don't respond there is not much else we can do. If you have suggestion I am open to hearing them.Best,Robin

Dear Robin,

you acted at any time lightning fast. If someone will use you as a stepping stone, then he must show you a) the hacking website, that will be infiltrated into other websites and b) an active (!) list of victims websites.

Link sources, and not only one or two old fragments of former hacks or inactive victim websites. The reason is simple. You can't stop a contract with webmasters only because it's someone else wish. What, if some stupid webmasters have copied in the meantime the design of the hacking lists for their own projects and it only looks like a hacking website but it isn't a hacking website? You need a legal legitimation, and for this a) AND b) is necessary.

All other are demands are horse hockey!

And now after the new changes on luckycasinoslist.com it would be also interesting, what did not changed to the prior versions.

Leopold

**iGamingWriter** · 28 January 2015, 5:36 am

Originally Posted by Roulette Zeitung

Dear Robin,

you acted at any time lightning fast. If someone will use you as a stepping stone, then he must show you a) the hacking website, that will be infiltrated into other websites and b) an active (!) list of victims websites.

Link sources, and not only one or two old fragments of former hacks or inactive victim websites. The reason is simple. You can't stop a contract with webmasters only because it's someone else wish. What, if some stupid webmasters have copied in the meantime the design of the hacking lists for their own projects and it only looks like a hacking website but it isn't a hacking website? You need a legal legitimation, and for this a) AND b) is necessary.

All other are demands are horse hockey!

And now after the new changes on luckycasinoslist.com it would be also interesting, what did not changed to the prior versions.

Leopold

I really don't understand what you're doing here RZ. You're actually doing more damage to EP than me. If you'd simply contacted them in the first instance (say on Saturday) - you have a direct channel to them, I don't - they could have taken prompt action to protect themselves. Instead you've tried to deny that this is happening at all and pass it all off as improbable coincidence, something even Robin seems to accept isn't true, all in an effort to attack and discredit me. Your actions have crossed the line time and time again into a personal vendetta simply because I criticised your using me as a tool to attack AskGamblers. Frankly I can't understand why you're still being allowed to post and I've lost rather a lot of faith in the GPWA system.

It might be an idea to let your beloved brand sort the problem quietly rather than drawing more and more attention to it. You don't like me, that's fine I can live with that. You are one amongst many. But you haven't been vindicated here and your continuing activity is only serving to draw further attention to this issue. No other involved brand has been subjected to this volume of posting activity and you keeping these threads alive is actually hurting EP far more than helping them.

**Roulette Zeitung** · 28 January 2015, 6:15 am

I am protecting EP from people like you, who are throwing dirt on their websites.

Thepogg

"We do NOT recommend playing with Titan casino.

Titan casino are a member of the long running Europartner Playtech group of casinos. Europartner’s have unfortunately made clear that they will not discuss player complaints."

I can well understand why they do not discuss player complaints with you.
I also wouldn't do, and you have no legitimation to force that, no legal legitimation and no ethical legitimation, because some programs don't discuss any complaints with third parties.
An ethical legitimation can be earned, but not with blacklisting programs behind their back. This is damaging companies.

In Germany we have absolutely no problems with player complaints.
If there is something, then this will be discussed in an open but decent way.

The live chat from EP brands is unbelievable well -I have tested it many times in Summer and Autumn 2014- and in my own advertising account I have seen a lot of players, winning huge sums over the years without any problems when they want to cashout.

If there are any little problems, then it's the philosophy of my family, that we call the program instead of yelling on the lowest level in other threads. There was never a thing, that couldn't be fixed within short time.

By the way, Saturday is no working day in Israel, and do you really believe, that a big company like EP have nothing else to do during business hours than reading thousands of strange posts outside of their program area?

Instead of other people many people in that company have a real job with a real employment contract and must work sensible for the money.

Leopold

**iGamingWriter** · 28 January 2015, 6:25 am

Originally Posted by Roulette Zeitung

"We do NOT recommend playing with Titan casino.

Titan casino are a member of the long running Europartner Playtech group of casinos. Europartner’s have unfortunately made clear that they will not discuss player complaints."

You've kinda proved my point here. That should actually read 'Blacklisted'. They're 'Not Recommended' for their failure to show adequate levels of transparency with regards to player complaints - I make no secret of that and EP will have been informed of the ramifications of their failure to engage with player complaints at the time the complaints were open. The Blacklisted status should apply given that they're still on hacked websites, however given Robin is looking into this right now I'm happy to allow a little extra time to ensure that the traffic is redirecting to dead space before making that switch.

Thanks for point that out

**Roulette Zeitung** · 28 January 2015, 7:00 am

You don't understand the situation. Why a casino should talk with people that are intentionally damaging companies without having a teal company? Do you really believe, every casino take the risk to share privacy data with someone who can't be predicted in his behaviour, who have absolutely no legal legitimation to receive privacy data from players?

You will be a big player, but working anonymous, without any company registration, no postal address on the site, no name, nothing?

You are a player helper? Your intention:

"Advertising

If you are an Affiliate Manager looking to get your casino listed on ThePOGG.com..."

It's a Fata Morgana. You have a normal anonymous advertising website like all of us and nothing else.

If I would have a complaint with a player on my Roulette Zeitung or if there would be something on a German forums, then casinos talking with us/them, because the sound makes the music, and I know German forums even without any banners, who are helping players, and the casinos are talking with them.

You are only in business since 4 years. That's a very short time. In 6 years or so, then perhaps you can say, that you have real knowledge about this industry.

Leopold

**iGamingWriter** · 28 January 2015, 7:24 am

Actually Leopold, I've been around for a LOT longer than 4 years in the gambling industry, both on and offline. I've run an affiliate site for 4 years.

As to legal responsibilities - every casino I speak to has no get out on this one. I'm very familiar with the Data Protection Act and relevant privacy laws. The only barrier a casino has to discussion of a player's account is the permission of the player - I'm always more than happy to ensure in any complaint situation that the casino has this to ensure they are covered legally. Whether they accept that the player has given permission via my terms and conditions when they submitted a complaint, or they want an email, or they want a phone call. I've even helped players draft letters to be signed and submitted.

The reason that casinos choose not to cooperate isn't privacy laws, it's concerns about the integrity of their security procedures - i.e. they don't want people engaged in fraud learning more about how they got caught. On this front I'm always happy to offer legally binding Non-Disclosures Agreements where the casino will have my full personal details. I have my own draft agreement preprepared to submit for editing to any casino's legal department.

I would challenge you - or anyone else player, affiliate, or casino rep who is of the mind - to go through the hundreds of complaints I've dealt with and find a single instance where I've revealed any sensitive information in a situation where I've not had the involved casino's direct permission to do so.

When casinos still choose not to discuss complaints then they don't have a get out. You should take a look at the other two brands you work with - both know me well and have resolved complaints through me. If EP can't live up to the standards set by the likes of InterPartners and Long Harbour, I don't want to work with them and will NOT recommend players sign-up there.

Finally - I've already addressed your concerns regarding my name and address - I've received physical threats from both players and casinos in the past. Players in particular can get very upset when a case does not go in their favour and while I don't really mind when they vent in my direction I'm not particularly keen to have to deal with aggressive individuals turning up on my door. Just about everyone within the casino side of the industry has enough access to my information that they could track me down very quickly - posting up these sorts of details for players would risk both me and my family.

**iGamingWriter** · 28 January 2015, 9:27 am

Robin - I won't be present on this forum any longer. If you need any further information from me about this issue or you wish to discuss any other matter you can feel free to reach me directly at [email protected].

Thanks,

ThePOGG

**mojo** · 28 January 2015, 1:36 pm

Originally Posted by Anthony

Leopold, personally attacking a member is not sharing an opinion.

The personal attacks included 'coward', 'douchy', 'not ethical' to name a few. It doesn't end. I feel like letting this stand encourages this to happen again to anyone and everyone who dares disagree with RZ. I feel it's a good time to have a discussion about it since it has had repercussions in that a member leaves the GPWA.

I'm all for free speech and one of the the things I like about the GPWA. I know it's difficult to moderate. Just wondering how you feel about allowing the name calling (personal attacks) and if you feel letting it stay validates the post and opens the door for more of this? Or do you feel is it more of a case of free speech and opinion?

**misanthrope** · 28 January 2015, 4:14 pm

Incidentally RZ, would you mind stopping to pass your own opinion off as the opinion of all germans? "We germans", "In germany", "All Germans", "Everybody in germany"... Why do you mention it in every second posting? your view = everybodys view = proof... That´s a bit embarrassing for the germans apart from you

Don't take it personally. You are investigating all day long, you created dozens of affiliate fan videos and you already wrote 1,8k postings here but you only created ~50 articles, since your launch 2,5 years ago, on your own homepage. Maybe you should rethink your priorities. I hope your wife has no problems with my posting

If so, sorry

#freespeech #samerightsforeveryone

**Sherlock** · 28 January 2015, 4:31 pm

No money can outweigh the juicy flame fighting for the truth! You, Germans, should know something about it

Sorry, for racist remark, but my grandma was from Austria and my aunt was born in postwar Hamburg docks, so I hope I make silly jokes.

**misanthrope** · 28 January 2015, 4:41 pm

Originally Posted by Sherlock

You, Germans, should know something about it

I am not good in history

**DaftDog** · 30 January 2015, 11:11 am

Originally Posted by thepogg

Robin - I won't be present on this forum any longer. If you need any further information from me about this issue or you wish to discuss any other matter you can feel free to reach me directly at [email protected].

Thanks,

ThePOGG

If you stay away from the forum then you let the grumpy old German win. I too was attacked by RZ when I dared to criticise EP myself. I was not intimidated and I let him know exactly what I felt about him. You've got to stand up to a bully and tell him to **** off otherwise he wins.

**mojo** · 30 January 2015, 8:27 pm

Originally Posted by Ixian

If you stay away from the forum then you let the grumpy old German win. I too was attacked by RZ when I dared to criticise EP myself. I was not intimidated and I let him know exactly what I felt about him. You've got to stand up to a bully and tell him to **** off otherwise he wins.

RZ would remind us over and over that he won.

**Roulette Zeitung** · 31 January 2015, 7:41 am

Originally Posted by Sherlock

No money can outweigh the juicy flame fighting for the truth! You, Germans, should know something about it

Yes, and that's the reason, why one can take a leaf out of our book. Things like the Vanunu case can shake the whole world.

Sorry, for racist remark, but my grandma was from Austria and my aunt was born in postwar Hamburg docks, so I hope I make silly jokes.

Collective guilt does not exist. The Jewish proportion of population today in Germany is 0,25%, and 95% of the German people have no problem with this people, because World War II over over since 70 years now. No one can say to a German: "You are guilty!" (because of what happened in the past) and except some racists no one is asking here: "Are you Jewish?" or irrelevant nonsense like that. The picture of Germany is still painted by many countries on the stand 70 years ago! Just ridiculous!

A broadcaster (WDR) tried to censor these days a very funny and satirical rap video from one of your most wonderful young comedy ladies here, because some people in higher positions from catholic church was crying for daddy and asked for censorship.

The result: The censorship was made public on other broadcasters here in Germany and now the WDR earned a wonderful reputation. In the meantime the video is a Youtube hit here and is coming closer to 3.000.000 views.

For the German audience, who haven't seen if before:

===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y3IWFLFHbk

We in Germany can't talk only about Mohammed Cartoons. Also Christian with 60% proportion of population have to live with irony and satire and except some hypersensitive they can.

Leopold

**Triple7** · 20 June 2015, 4:03 pm

Titan is one of their brands?

Thread: Opinion by thepogg.com

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