Concern regarding Gambling Affiliation and ACF Webmaster

**bb1web** · 23 November 2010, 5:46 pm

Interesting situation.

Terry, you sir did an excellent job in your evaluation of the whole approach to this matter and you effectively predicted more problems would arise and so they have:

Throw in a sponsor who has terms that obviously are predatory to at least some extent, and wash it down with their lack of enthusiasm to see this to a happy ending and it is hard to side with the sponsor

but then on the other side of the scale we begin adding this weight:

75% conversion is unreal considering these are depositing players. No getting around that and no matter what the no deposit offer may be: it shouldn't effect the number of real money deposits that came in.

Maybe I missed something?

The deal as I understand it is payment on players who deposit more than 50 at Casino Riva and (I think it was) 75 or so at the other casino: but this is all concerning Riva, so the number is 50.

The aff gets 100 so that leaves the number of 50 to play with: and you can create a lot of incentives with that much money to play with: per player involved.

.....

Curious to know since these are all players from one country: what geographic locations from within Poland, that they came?

I say that because if any incentive situation were involved that was done off-line, so as to keep the matter hidden from the sponsor, it would likely generate a larger number of players from one locality than be evenly spread out across the country because you would need to gain these people via off-line advertisement / word of mouth, in which of either case it would be a result where a majority of players came from a ground zero, so to speak.

Allowing for the fact that of course the heavier populated parts would have heavier numbers, there would still be one area which was standing out as heavier than the rest.

.....

Now having said that: the affiliate obviously feels legit enough to come post here which seems like to me that a fraud (or at least a pro) would have expected such matters to come up as business as usual, and went on to their next scam rather than waste time on what will ultimately result in at best, a situation where the relationship is forever ruined = the best that can come from this is payment on services already rendered.

Is it really worth the time spent compared to moving on to the next scam? I don't know. Maybe he's legit.

I am amazed under any circumstances that a 75% rate is accomplished of real money deposits being made.

If nothing else, put the player's on a rev share deal and that way the aff gets something for his troubles, perhaps even benefits in the end by taking such an approach, and yet the casino is protected because it stays on a pay per money earned basis.

**bankroll4you** · 27 November 2010, 6:27 pm

Originally Posted by bb1web

Interesting situation.

Terry, you sir did an excellent job in your evaluation of the whole approach to this matter and you effectively predicted more problems would arise and so they have:

Throw in a sponsor who has terms that obviously are predatory to at least some extent, and wash it down with their lack of enthusiasm to see this to a happy ending and it is hard to side with the sponsor

but then on the other side of the scale we begin adding this weight:

75% conversion is unreal considering these are depositing players. No getting around that and no matter what the no deposit offer may be: it shouldn't effect the number of real money deposits that came in.

Maybe I missed something?

The deal as I understand it is payment on players who deposit more than 50 at Casino Riva and (I think it was) 75 or so at the other casino: but this is all concerning Riva, so the number is 50.

The aff gets 100 so that leaves the number of 50 to play with: and you can create a lot of incentives with that much money to play with: per player involved.

.....

Curious to know since these are all players from one country: what geographic locations from within Poland, that they came?

I say that because if any incentive situation were involved that was done off-line, so as to keep the matter hidden from the sponsor, it would likely generate a larger number of players from one locality than be evenly spread out across the country because you would need to gain these people via off-line advertisement / word of mouth, in which of either case it would be a result where a majority of players came from a ground zero, so to speak.

Allowing for the fact that of course the heavier populated parts would have heavier numbers, there would still be one area which was standing out as heavier than the rest.

.....

Now having said that: the affiliate obviously feels legit enough to come post here which seems like to me that a fraud (or at least a pro) would have expected such matters to come up as business as usual, and went on to their next scam rather than waste time on what will ultimately result in at best, a situation where the relationship is forever ruined = the best that can come from this is payment on services already rendered.

Is it really worth the time spent compared to moving on to the next scam? I don't know. Maybe he's legit.

I am amazed under any circumstances that a 75% rate is accomplished of real money deposits being made.

If nothing else, put the player's on a rev share deal and that way the aff gets something for his troubles, perhaps even benefits in the end by taking such an approach, and yet the casino is protected because it stays on a pay per money earned basis.

75% conversion isn't unreal if you know how to make a good advertisement regarding that kind of casino. People know that Riva has very good bonus T&C's so most of them deposit - cause depositing there is like freerolling.

I really don't have to do any incentive-a-like things - and I didn't done anything like that.

How do you know those are players from one country?

Your post is full of strange speculations. Of course this is a forum where anybody can post anything as we have freedom of speech. But instead of that I would like to see some suggestions about my situation - not speculation suggesting that I'm a cheater.

**Betpartners** · 28 November 2010, 6:09 am

Originally Posted by bankroll4you

How do you know those are players from one country?

I would guess that bb1web came to that conclusion because on the first page of this thread ACF-Webmasters mentioned the players were from Poland and you never corrected them, so for me it is only natural that the assumption is that they are from one country, so not sure why you would question that statement now.

Originally Posted by bankroll4you

Your post is full of strange speculations. Of course this is a forum where anybody can post anything as we have freedom of speech. But instead of that I would like to see some suggestions about my situation - not speculation suggesting that I'm a cheater.

bb1web is entitled to have his say and to question your own statements simply because you did bring it in to the public domain, everyone on here knows that if you post something up here you are then open to questions both negative and positive, if you want only supporters and posts backing you up then i fear you have misjudged how the GPWA works.

May i suggest rather than react to bb1web post as you did that you instead respond to his queries with answers, if you have nothing to hide then i cannot see why you don't do that.

Steve (bb1web) has brought up some legitimate concerns in my opinion and are worthy of a response.

If you are shown to be in the right the members on here will go to bat for you, they are a hard bunch on here take my word for it and if they see a program ripping off an affiliate then they will tear that program to pieces.

But the members on here will not go to bat for you without knowing 100% for sure that you have been ripped off and as things stand i am not sure that anyone can say hand on heart that your case is proven.

That is not to say that you are not 100% in the right and that ACF-Webmasters are 100% in the wrong, it means simply that your case is still full of ambiguity and if you do want the full support of the entire community then you will need to answer the very fair questions asked.

Some on here will already believe you, some will not but the truth is that is just assumption at this point.

I do not take sides here at all, i simply do not know what has really happened, i have a gut feeling and that is all, some parts of this look strange from all sides and with ACF-webmaster not responding, GA not responding and to be frank your answers not forthcoming entirely then i cannot see how sides can be taken at this point.

**gambling-affiliation** · 2 December 2010, 8:29 am

Hi,

This last post to inform everyone that this case is now solved.

To sum up :

-The affiliate concerned has generated a 97% transformation rate between regisrations and deposits.

-All deposits have been done through the same payment method.

-All deposit amounts are the same for all players.

-Main of the e-mail adresse's and phone numbers are fake, the players are unreachable.

With those evidences of suspicious fraud traffic, Casino Riva took the decision to pay the CPA's to the affiliate only when the players will send their proof of identity. Untill there, Casino Riva have frozen the player accounts.

Thank you for your understanding.

Regards,

**bankroll4you** · 3 December 2010, 7:08 pm

Dear Max!

I'm very embarassed by the whole situation - but you're LIAR.

None of the things you wrote is truth:

1) Conversion wasn't that high.

2) If players deposited the same methond - show me this.

3) Players didn't deposited the same amounts - Im adding a screen from report.

4) How it's possible that you still say that players gave wrong e-mails or telephone numbers if you paid 50 from 98? How is it possible to deposit when players enters wrong e-mail? Can you explain?

[2010-10-25 11:35:59] " I think they are not able to provide real prove"
[2010-11-10 14:51:11] " yes I had yesterday, I asked them to prove their suspicions about your traffic and that the reason they gave is not enough.
For them, this is mainly fraud, no other prooves will be provide, the players accounts have been frozen."

Ok so how it's like for real? You write me that they didn't provided enough proof, which is truth, then you say it's a fraud?

For me it's clear - only reason that they arent willing to pay is fact that they didn't earned much on thee players, cause they withdrawed more than deposited.
If the truth was more likely to be as Riva says - they wouldn't paid for players that send docs, cause who is paying for fraud traffic?
I would like to add that at the start of August I've spoke with one of GA managers, and he said thar 10 additional CPA was added to my account from other affiliates accounts to make me sit quiet, and he add that this is because I'm making a lot of problems asking for my money (I got logs from that).
This is the way their working - adding leads where they want...

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**Betpartners** · 4 December 2010, 3:15 am

Bankroll4 looks like both acf-webmasters and Gambling Affiliation have stated that they believe that your players are fraud and without the support of at least one of these i cannot see how you will get paid.

Also looking at that screenshot it does appear that those that deposited once were all more or less the same amount, the few cents difference on each one can probably be accounted for currency deviations.

Those that deposited twice also look like they probably deposited the same amounts with currency deviation again explaining the slight differences.

I am sorry to say but from what i can see you really are going to struggle to make a case here.

Maybe if you can post a screenshot of ALL the deposits that show significant differences from depositors that will help you case, but truth be known and from my own experience on my accounts across a wide range of bookies/casinos/poker accounts there is always a significant difference in deposits.

Thats said i still cannot say who is 100% right or wrong on this as i do not have access to all documents, but based on what i have seen so far, your complaint is struggling to stand up.

Just my opinion based on very limited info available

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