Concern regarding Gambling Affiliation and ACF Webmaster

**bankroll4you** · 19 October 2010, 6:55 am

Originally Posted by bankroll4you

hello,

let's start from the fact that i've just received report from ga regarding my players. There isn't any info in it, besides date of signup and deposit. I've demanded full report from you and any proof that my players are fraud as you keep stating.
You're trying to hide mentioning some paragraphs from your poor tc's and keep telling me you can't give me more details - if you accuse me of cheating - prove me it!

Your tactics is simple - you send me to ga and you know that they are just intermediary between me and you. All decisions were made by you, so it's natural that if you didn't paid ga for players, they won't pay me - and you keep sending me to them.

Your way of verifying traffic is unacceptable for me and probably all people on this forum. I understand that you can require docs when it comes to credit card deposit or withdrawal. But not all players will send their docs when you offer them bonus - this is simple. As i've mentioned before:
1) there were holidays
2) most of these e-mails surely hit spam folders
3) many of people won't send their documents cause that will be suspicous that somebody ask for them and offers money! Player isn't obliged to send you anything if he want and i bet some of players just ignored those e-mails.

My payout shouldn't depend on unaware/willing/unwilling players! If you do that kind of veryfing players affiliate will probably get only a part of his earnings - not even close to 100%. I've lost 25% in may, 95% (!!!) in june.

That difference between months is super suspicious. I think that proves one thing - many players send their id's in may, this is a great proof that my traffic was ok. You did a "great job" - saved nice sum of money on affiliates, well done.

Isn't that strange that during last few months i never had any traffic problems? I think that also proves that my traffic was ok. By your absurd verifying you can earn more money on your affiliates - cuttig their earnings. I know i'm not only one affiliate like that. I've already spoke with few people but they don't have courage to start fighting with you to get their hard earned money!

At the start i've sent you few mails, spoke with few managers. All people from your company were ingnoring me, and one even treatened me to stop posting here, cause he will start posting "bad" posts about me.

After the case started to get a bit louder in industry you suddenly shoved some interest. If i wouldn't post this on forums - you would even bother to answer me i guess, just keep ignoring as you did. I've offered you few times to make some kind of compromise with me and you also ignored that. Any self-respecting aff. Program would try to do compromise and you didn't even started to try...

I feel cheated by you. Some time has passed. As you're not interested in making any kind of agreement with me i decided as follows:

As i didn't got payment for my 52 players - i will wait next 3 working days and give you one last chance to pay me. After that i will be forced to inform institutions that will hopefully help me.
I will send official complaint to lotteries and gaming authority and ecorga. I will also run a site explaining how "nice" you treat your affiliates.

Have a nice day!

Bankroll4you

bump!

**bankroll4you** · 19 October 2010, 7:50 am

No answer from friday...it seems THEY ARE REALLY PREDATORY AFFILIATE PROGRAM

**GFPC** · 19 October 2010, 8:21 am

Hey there,

Where is https://www.gambling-affiliation.com/en/index.html in this matter.
I notice the member https://www.cpcamcctv.com/member/gambling-affiliation
does not appear to be coming in here to reply.

It would seem required in order to really know what is going on is to have them come into this thread to make comment and show their reports.

It is a well known fact ACF - Webmasters and Poker Gains do run Predatory Terms in there affiliate agreements. I assure you many people are eye balling them and something will be done soon enough.

But in your case there is another party involved and that is Gambling Affiliation and they do not seem to want to report here. Why?

Anyone able to contact them again? Maybe Acf - Webmaster can have a little decency and ask Gambling Affiliation to come and reply.

Edit: removed part of post. It seems a post was removed from another member that i made comment on

Originally Posted by bankroll4you

No answer from friday...it seems THEY ARE REALLY PREDATORY AFFILIATE PROGRAM

**Anthony** · 19 October 2010, 8:48 am

I have been in contact with a Gambling Affiliation representative I met in Budapest and he just got back to their Malta office today. I expect a response shortly.

**bankroll4you** · 19 October 2010, 8:56 am

Answer from GA manager:

"For the moment I want to see what Riva is answering to my lst mail, I don't want to say anuthing before they are and see what they will suggest. I want also to have the prove of what they are saying when the say it is fraud"

I see someone from PREADATORY PROGRAM is all time online at forum, and not going to reply to my post!!!
ACF-WEBMASTER WHERE ARE YOU?????

**GFPC** · 19 October 2010, 9:36 am

**GFPC** · 19 October 2010, 10:09 am

Originally Posted by GFPC

an hour later!

**bankroll4you** · 19 October 2010, 1:25 pm

Originally Posted by GFPC

an hour later!

I'm waiting for respond from these scammers...

**bankroll4you** · 20 October 2010, 6:10 am

Today I talked with the GA manager. Statistics has been actualized and I had another three players accepted. He did not receive the fraud report that he was asking for. ACF- WEBMASTER WHERE ARE YOU!!!!????

**GFPC** · 20 October 2010, 7:19 am

Can you ask Gambling Affiliation to come here and post? They are a member here i see with no posts. I think it would be good if they posted.

Since ACF - Webmaster refuses to reply to you (common) I would suggest you use a third party to audit the reports you got.

I have an issue with them shaving affiiliate earnings, and they refuse to budge so i made a formal complaint to CAP.

Just a suggestion mate, I know how frustrating it is with these predatory type programs like Poker Gains and Acf - Wemasters.

Originally Posted by bankroll4you

Today I talked with the GA manager. Statistics has been actualized and I had another three players accepted. He did not receive the fraud report that he was asking for. ACF- WEBMASTER WHERE ARE YOU!!!!????

**Sandra_LP** · 20 October 2010, 8:09 am

Dear,

Since you are not affiliate to ACF but with Gambling affiliation

To help us finalize our investigation. Can you please provide us with

your full Website Url, (all)
Nbre of registration (total)
Nbre of 1st deposit (total)
Including the period.

As all (affiliates) knows how much traffic/conversion a good website can achieve.
This will help public to judge your issue with Gambling affiliation.

The proof of fraud are safe with our legal dept.
You as an Affiliate must proof yourself, we will not help frauds to justify themselves
We have 30 000 affiliates, ACF is 10 Year's old and always been committed.

Thanks

**Sandra_LP** · 20 October 2010, 8:12 am

Originally Posted by bankroll4you

Hi
When it comes to the reports I've been contacting twice...they promises me those and I'm still waiting.
This isn't acceptable to require from every player to send his documents, I understand when it comes to credit card deposits or withdrawals but NOT from every player.
Because of they "verify" method I've lost payment for 52 players.
This isn't acceptable - I haven't seen an affiliate program using method like you.

Dear,

Since you are not affiliate to ACF but with Gambling affiliation

To help us finalize our investigation. Can you please provide us with

your full Website Url, (all)
Nbre of registration (total)
Nbre of 1st deposit (total)
Including the period.

As all (affiliates) knows how much traffic/conversion a good website can achieve.
This will help public to judge your issue with Gambling affiliation.

The proof of fraud are safe with our legal dept.
You as an Affiliate must proof yourself, we will not help frauds to justify themselves
We have 30 000 affiliates, ACF is 10 Year's old and always been committed.

Thanks

**gambling-affiliation** · 20 October 2010, 8:46 am

Hi,

In a way, Gambling Affiliation can understand Casino Riva by the fact that they are having suspicions about the traffic of bankroll4you since this affiliate has almost generated a 100% transformation rate between registartions and deposits. Casino Riva did not say that they are refusing to pay the CPA's, but they just added an extra condition to validate the commissions, which is the demand of the players identities . As soon as the players will send their documents to prove their identities, Riva will pay for the affiliate commissoins.

On the other side, bankroll4you is totally in his right to complain and to ask for full detail report of his players activity and to get prove of it. We need to solve this problem quickly, this is why, we have been asking to our client to provide a real prove of the players activities. If they are definitely bad quality, their should not be any problem to give a proper prove.

We will let you know.

Thank you

Gambling Affiliation

**GFPC** · 20 October 2010, 9:12 am

I agree!! Proof needs to be seen here by the affiliate. Not stored away in some legal office if it does exist. To demand player identities has been done before but sometimes you can not ask all the players to send them. I have a hard time sending my ID over the internet and many people feel this is unsafe.

This also opens the door for ACF- Webmaster to use this method not to pay affiliates on any occassion. This is not good. And this is why proof they are fraud is needed. Without proof the only real thing they can do is pay the affiliate and remove their partnership together if the so choose.

Something does not smell right here and I think ARBITRATION is in order here. A third party needs to be used to make a decision here. Or else this will not get solved.

I have lodged my complaint with CAP, but I can say using GAU here in this case would be a good idea. Just a thought!

I also think this could have something to do with their terms and conditions which allow for this type of behavour from either side.

**bankroll4you** · 20 October 2010, 9:48 am

Originally Posted by gambling-affiliation

Hi,

In a way, Gambling Affiliation can understand Casino Riva by the fact that they are having suspicions about the traffic of bankroll4you since this affiliate has almost generated a 100% transformation rate between registartions and deposits. Casino Riva did not say that they are refusing to pay the CPA's, but they just added an extra condition to validate the commissions, which is the demand of the players identities . As soon as the players will send their documents to prove their identities, Riva will pay for the affiliate commissoins.

On the other side, bankroll4you is totally in his right to complain and to ask for full detail report of his players activity and to get prove of it. We need to solve this problem quickly, this is why, we have been asking to our client to provide a real prove of the players activities. If they are definitely bad quality, their should not be any problem to give a proper prove.

We will let you know.

Thank you

Gambling Affiliation

Hello!
First thing is that, there is no 100% conversion as you mention - it's about 75%. I'm a bit suprises myself that this number is high, but wait - Riva offers 20 Pounds of no deposit, they also have nice deposit bonus. Most of players know that you can withdraw their winnings and ignore rollover - this is probably the best offer in whole business.
So is this really so supirisng that they sign up and deposit? ACF shouldn't be suprised that many players is coming there for bonuses and try to withdraw their winnings.

**thepokerkeep** · 20 October 2010, 10:07 am

The GAU successfully arbitrated a dispute between ACF and an affiliate back in November 2009. At that time I made some notes about ACF's terms and conditions which I think pretty much explain why these problems keep reoccurring. Link to report
___________

Min deposit to earn cpa -
1.8 "CPA" is a bonus you obtain when a player signed up by your site makes a first deposit of a minimum of €49 for Casino770 and €49 for Casino Riva.

Yet, the player has the option to make a min deposit of just $20 at their properties. Then they have the out to not pay the cpa -

1.8.2 If a player registers through your website on to Casino 770 and/or Casino Riva, makes his/her first deposit of €30 and another one of €30, it will not be counted as a CPA.

Their cpa and cpa hybrid deals leave them wide open to fraud and abuse by unscrupulous affiliates.

They willingly cut deals where the cpa hybrid is as high as 20% rev share plus $80 commission on a player who only has to make an initial $20 deposit. This is bound to be a losing proposition for them on many, many occasions and is bound to create fraud issues as well as terms abuse issues.

Obviously, they are aware of the above issues, hence this clause -

1.12 Many “bonus seekers?are redirected to our sites through forums. Consequently, we reserve the right not to accept the traffic coming from these sources. Suspicious traffic coming from these sources could be redirected automatically except if the player is accepted after agreement and in exceptional circumstances.

Yet, they regularly work (and cut deals like the one mentioned above) with affiliates who have the type of forum listed above. Then, when they find themselves in the negative, they break their contract with the affiliate while still allowing the players to play.

**bankroll4you** · 20 October 2010, 10:15 am

Originally Posted by ACF-Webmaster

Dear,

Since you are not affiliate to ACF but with Gambling affiliation

To help us finalize our investigation. Can you please provide us with

your full Website Url, (all)
Nbre of registration (total)
Nbre of 1st deposit (total)
Including the period.

As all (affiliates) knows how much traffic/conversion a good website can achieve.
This will help public to judge your issue with Gambling affiliation.

The proof of fraud are safe with our legal dept.
You as an Affiliate must proof yourself, we will not help frauds to justify themselves
We have 30 000 affiliates, ACF is 10 Year's old and always been committed.

Thanks

Hello,

Here are the answers for your questions:

1)
www.bankroll4you.com
www.fivecards.org
www.poker-sponsorship.com

2) I don't have stats for whole period, only May - June
3) 95 depositors
4) Period 1 FEB - 30 JUNE

Now it's your turn to show the fraud report. Why it took you so long to answer? How much time will take investigation?
I'm attaching GA report so everybody could see what informations I got on my account.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

**bankroll4you** · 22 October 2010, 5:13 am

ACF-WEBMASTER...I'm wating for answer

**bankroll4you** · 24 October 2010, 10:51 am

Dear ACF-WEBMASTER

In regarding with report that I've received, and no objections from me and Gambling affiliation (to it) and no proofs regarding accusations by your side:
I would like to say that today I've sent official complaint to:

1) eCommerce and Online Gaming Regulation and Assurance( eCOGRA)
2) Lotteries and Gaming Authority Malta( LGA)

Regards,

Bankroll4you

**bankroll4you** · 25 October 2010, 6:43 am

Dear ACF-WEBMASTER

Why You are still not responding on the forum ? Why if You are still following the topic and reading it everyday.
Today I talked to GA manager. He received "proofs" from ACFWEBMASTER. This is the copy of our conversation:

"From them, the reasons that prove that your players are not good quality :
-Players not identifiable
-Fake number phone or no answer to the phone"

Question to the forum administrators. Why those cheaters still are a platinium sponsor on this forum ?

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